2008/09/30

And Now A Word From Beth Moore



Often we hear the noble expression "color blind" to describe people without racial prejudice. We're not at all sure "color blindness" is what God is looking for. We believe He wants us to appreciate and delight in our different colors and be "color-blessed" instead!

You know, my life would be a lot easier if things were more, you know, black and white.
I would really like to just dismiss Beth Moore as another crack-pot isogetical freak but now she's gone and said this... pretty much exactly what I said just a few days ago.
It just goes to show you, we can all learn from one another. Everybody has something important to contribute. I am not saying you should invite her to your parish. You shouldn't. But, we can't just wave her off either. Like it or not... and, to be totally honest, I do not... Beth is one of us.
I am going to go back to the Beth Moore Bible Study, published by the hate-mongers at LifeWay, and see what I can learn from my enemies. This is required if we're ever going to get anywhere with the whole Kingdom of God thing... know what I mean?

11 comments:

Presbyterian Gal said...

I do know what you mean. I think that makes maybe 4 of us now.

Wormwood's Doxy said...

Honey, I appreciate your willingness to take one for the team.

Actually, I told Dear Friend last night that I was surprised to find on Beth Moore's website that she believes that scripture is God-breathed, rather than inerrant and infallible.

Strike Two for stereotypes and suppositions.

But that STILL doesn't mean we have to host her Bible study. ;-)

Diane--from the earlier thread...I think you are on to something important. We need to learn to present the Bible with both enthusiasm and humor---a tall order for my Episco-peeps, who don't seem to know much about the B-I-B-L-E and are more afraid of it than curious... (Lindy, this is why I do EFM, quite frankly---it's a good response to the two poles. A "via media" you might say... ;-)

Cheers,
Doxy

Lindy said...

Cheer up Presbyterian Gal... there are more than four. I like to think lots more.

It's not just taking one for the team. I really have let myself enjoy the isolation of only reading and listening to people I agree with.

I declared my listening process over sometime last year, or maybe it was the year before. And I had good reasons for that. Not the least of which is that I'd pretty much done it for twenty years; also nobody was listening back; and I didn't feel I had the support I needed to do it anymore. That's all legit. But it had the effect of making a little bubble around me. A good and happy place to be sure.

Thing is that in the coming kingdom... and I DO believe in that, btw... in the new order of things I won't have that luxury and in that light it seems more like a liabibility than a luxury. I need to start practicing now for living with these people. And I do feel that it's going to take a lot of practice.

I'll tell you what this is all about. A few years ago... six or seven... someone hurt me real bad. Almost a mortal blow to my soul. Soo eventually -- not right away, but eventually -- I started praying for her. I've been praying for her everyday for I don't kknow how many years now. Long time. And I am JUST NOW beginning to see some little love for her start to take hold. Just a tiny little bit of understanding and real concern for her. It's a hard heart I have... It taks awhile for it to come around.

I know prayer is not supposed to be about having any success. But, sometimes I need a little sign. I do. And this has been enough for me. So now I am motivated to pray for all my enemies. I have seen that you CAN love your enemies, you really can bless those who persecute you, my own slippery rock of a heart can be changed. It is possible. And if MY heart can be changed that gives me a lot of hope for the rest of you too, and for my enemies, even for the most despicable. Maybe even those prissy EFMers and the clickish Cruisilistas... I can't even spell that.

So I am going back to Beth Moore. I want to have a truly open heart and see what they can teach me.

I don't like all the little clubs that develop in congregations... this and that one... and I have a feeling that the Beth Moore-ites are their own little club. That's not Beth Moore's fault. But there are real advantages to those groups too and maybe it's time for me to appreciate them a little more.

Presbyterian Gal said...

Hi Lindy,

Just dropping by to say I'm still praying for you and Rowan. Hope he's better today.

Grandmère Mimi said...

Lindy, I don't know who Beth Moore is, and I did not look her up before coming here to comment. Perhaps I should have.

You say:

It's not just taking one for the team. I really have let myself enjoy the isolation of only reading and listening to people I agree with.

I do that, too. Where I live, pretty much everyone disagrees with a good many of my views, and I get tired of conversations turning into arguments, so I clump with those few who are like-minded.

I have found that praying for those who have wronged me or those whom I dislike rather intensely is helpful in overcoming bitterness and anger and arriving at something that approaches love for them. The only conclusion I can come to is that prayer works, but not always in the exact way that we want and not at always at the time that we want.

Good for you for going back to Beth Moore. I've not reached the point where I'll say that I'll go back to Alpha. You're a good person, Lindy. Rowan is blessed to have you as his guardian.

As for the kingdom, that other kingdom, I'm praying for instant love for and knowledge of "those people" when I get there. It's the least God can do.

Lindy said...

When you get there?
I don't know G'mère Mimi. I wish it were like that, and maybe it will be... God knows, I don't know.
But, I think we have to, you know, get ready. I just want to be ready.

I skipped last night because my buddy wasn't in town, and I didn't want to leave my little dog when he was feeling down. Also I wanted to see how badly Sarah Palin would screw up in the debate. It's probably good that way. I imagine I need another week, or century, to pray on it. I really do want to learn something and I want to understand what motivates that kind of faith. There are so many of them. I just want to understand how that can be. It merits investigation at least.

I'll see you "there" if not before!

Lindy

Grandmère Mimi said...

Lindy, yours is the better path.

Lindy said...

Well, I'm glad it's not a competition.

We'll find out... eventually. All will be known. You know, later.

sharecropper said...

Listening is a good occupation - even listening to those with whom we disagree or sometimes agree or whatever. Isolation kills us. I listened to the vp debate and I thought Palin did an admirable job for someone who knew so little a few days ago. She's a quick learner. I think we'll be contending with her in the legislature if not in the White House.

I continue to pray for you and Rowan.

Have you ever watched Joyce Meyers? She's a killer speaker, and I even agree with some of what she says. She's aggressive and when she stalks across the stage, you know something interesting is coming.

And, yeah, it takes a long time to get over some hurts. I parted company with a friend in 1966 and have refused to talk with her or see her (we live in separate parts of the country). But this week, I found pictures I think she might like to have; so I've looked up her address, and I'm sending them along with a return address and with forgiveness - but a bit of wariness and weariness.

Peace.

Anonymous said...

Hi.

This is the first time I've seen this blog. I was invited to a Beth Moore study--went once, thought she made some good points, but I have to admit my own bias--I get nervous when the Southern accent and all the "amens" kick in that I'm not going to like the politics (and I admit that's not a fair association to make. I'm supposed to go back to another study tomorrow. I don't want to be part of any study that gets homophobic, racist, sexist, etc. This is a fruits of the Spirit study. Does anyone out there know whether I'm going to find myself looking for the nearest exit tomorrow? The only other time I went, the only thing that I thought was sort of odd was how she made a remark about how many Christian women are into looking at internet porn. I don't know where the magazine she read that in gets that kind of data, but I'd rather see her more worried about social justice issues, etc. Anyway, I'm reassured by the comments I've seen here. Any other suggestions from anyone of a good Bible study guide? Thanks for your help.

Lindy said...

Let me prefece by saying that I am speaking from my own very limited experience.

Since I am from the South the amens don't bother me. I've been known to ask for an amen or two myself, and I'm a master at using that charming southern accent whenebver I think it will be helpful to my cause. So, that's not my issue. I understand it's annoying for others. Be careful, though, not to confuse the accent with any sort of political leaning, and don't assume that people who talk like that are stupid. I give you Ann Richards and Molly Ivins as examples which defy both stereotypes.

I believe that it is fairly common within the sort of mega-para-evang-charismatic church to ignore justice and social issues and to concentrate on more personal piety. I rarely hear anything homophobic or overtly anti-woman. It's more subtle. There is simply an absence of anything that would affirm the goodness of Gay people, and an assumption that all women will marry a man and bear him babies... like in the Bible. This sometimes makes me wish that Beth, Joyce, Gloria, Marge and the rest would retire to their menstral hut... like in the Bible... and give the rest of us a break from them..

I am sure that such a view is good for some of the people, at least some of the time. But, the absence of a justice agenda is problematic.

My biggest beef with the Beth Moore study I attended a couple of times is that it was boring. The first hour was spent working in our workbooks and making sure we all had the correct answers to some fill-in-the blank type things. BORING. Most oddly, I had to take a little test to see how much faith I had. Not much apparently. The questions were multiple choice but I just wound up answering true/false to quite a few. The quiz evidenced a really loosey Christology. Very hard to give an answer when you think all the choices are incomplete.

I just think that when you get eight, or ten, or twelve women together with their Bibles that should not be boring. It shouldn't be boring. If it is, something is not quite right.

I enjoy the Beth Moore part of the evening. The preaching. She is a good preacher and, while I don't agree with all her assumptions, it's still good. Very entertaining. I feel inspired by it. You should go for that. Take what speaks to you and leave the rest.

Long ago I came to grips with the unfortunate little fact that there will never be a teacher who is like me and can speak directly to my needs and experiences. I wish there were. I pray for a teacher every day. So far God has sent me agony, sorrow, and dry bones. Not exactly what I had in mind. Apparently all the pretty teachers are reserved for the more main-stream.

I would really prefer it if all my blessings in life came wrapped in golden paper and tied with a silver ribbon, if they were easily recognizable, and smelled good. But, God does not work like that. If I know one thing, it's to be ready to blessed by anyone, anywhere, and at any time. You never know! Beth Moore might be just what you need.

Good luck to you, and let us know how it goes.